The Law brings us to Christ Photo by Sora Shimazaki on Pexels.com
Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Protestants read this verse and interpret it as though it were foreshortened. In other words, they only see the words, “Christ is the end of the law” and thus declare that the 10 Commandments are no longer necessary. But that is not what this means. To paraphrase the meaning of this verse, it is, “Christ is the goal of those who keep the law, because all who believe in Him keep the law out their desire to be righteous.” Let me back that up with more Scripture.
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
So, you see, keeping the Law brings us to Christ. That is the purpose of the Law.
He died for our sins Photo by Pixabay on Pexels.com
What do you mean, “did I merit these badges?” Photo by Carmen Attal on Pexels.com
Intro:
A long time ago, I had a debate with Dave Armstrong and John Martignoni, about the merit of man’s works before justification. It remains unresolved, in my opinion. Poor Jimmy Akin’s name was bandied about. But I had never spoken to him on the matter. As I was browsing the internet, I accidentally stumbled upon it, here. This is Dave Armstrong’s summary and decidedly one sided. I thought I’d present my side of the argument.
From that article, I will only take two short excerpts because the subject matter is not as complicated as Dave would make it seem. These happen to be John Marginoni snippets as quoted by Dave Armstrong:
Apologist John Martignoni recently wrote: “The Catholic Church teaches that one’s works are of absolutely no avail, unless one is already in a state of justification.” Apologetics for the Masses, #107
If we lose our faith, or if we do not do the works that God has prepared for us – we do not do the will of God for our lives – then we can lose the gift of justification…the gift of salvation…that God has given us through Baptism.
Merit: Clarification of the Catholic Doctrine MAY 10, 2016 BY DAVE ARMSTRONG
Two things to notice there.
They (I say “they” because Dave, John and Jimmy seem to agree on this) are talking about the merit of works before justification. They claim that God does not give any merit for these works.
They equate justification with Baptism.
To summarize their argument, then, I hope I can honestly say the following, you be the judge.
“The Catholic Church teaches that one’s works are of absolutely no avail, unless one is already in a state of justification.”…. that God has given us through Baptism.
I’ll assume that’s an honest encapsulation of their argument. If it isn’t, then I’ve been tilting at windmills, because that’s what I’ve been arguing against, with them, for years.
First, is it true that the Catholic Church Teaches that we are given justification through Baptism?
Yes. It is true. The Catholic Church Teaches, infallibly, that God gives us the justification of Jesus Christ through Baptism. It is also called the Laver of Regeneration. This Teaching is expounded in the Council of Trent.
CHAPTER IV A BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF THE JUSTIFICATION OF THE SINNER AND ITS MODE IN THE STATE OF GRACE
In which words is given a brief description of the justification of the sinner, as being a translation from that state in which man is born a child of the first Adam, to the state of grace and of the adoption of the sons of God through the second Adam, Jesus Christ, our Savior.
This translation however cannot, since promulgation of the Gospel, be effected except through the laver of regeneration or its desire, as it is written:
Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.[18]
Council of Trent, Session VI
Second, does the Catholic Church Teach that the works performed before the justification which is given to us at Baptism are of no avail?
The answer is, “no”. It is not true. Here’s the proof. Let’s go to the very next chapters, V and VI of the Council of Trent, Session VI. Mind you, this is the infallible Teaching on justification.
CHAPTER V THE NECESSITY OF PREPARATION FOR JUSTIFICATION IN ADULTS, AND WHENCE IT PROCEEDS
It is furthermore declared that in adults the beginning of that justification must proceed from the predisposing grace of God through Jesus Christ, that is, from His vocation, whereby, without any merits on their part, they are called; that they who by sin had been cut off from God, may be disposed through His quickening and helping grace to convert themselves to their own justification by freely assenting to and cooperating with that grace; so that, while God touches the heart of man through the illumination of the Holy Ghost, man himself neither does absolutely nothing while receiving that inspiration, since he can also reject it, nor yet is he able by his own free will and without the grace of God to move himself to justice in His sight.
Hence, when it is said in the sacred writings: Turn ye to me, and I will turn to you,[19] we are reminded of our liberty; and when we reply: Convert us, O Lord, to thee, and we shall be converted,[20] we confess that we need the grace of God.
Council of Trent, Session VI
Notice the title. The necessity of preparation for justification in adults…
By definition, preparation is a work. Preparation definition is – the action or process of making something ready for use or service or of getting ready for some occasion, test, or duty.
Thus, this preparation is a work which avails for justification. What does “avail” mean?
Avail has three meanings: (1) to make use of; (2) to be of use; and (3) benefit or advantage.
How to Use Avail Correctly – Grammarist Search domain grammarist.com/usage/avail/https://grammarist.com/usage/avail/
Just by the title we know that there are works, prior to justification, which prepare one for and thus, avail for justification. But read on.
may be disposed through His quickening and helping grace to convert themselves to their own justification by freely assenting to and cooperating with that grace;
The unregenerate man must cooperate with grace and convert himself to his own justification. Now, if you don’t believe this is talking about the unregenerate man, let’s go to the next Chapter which is a bit more specific on that matter.
CHAPTER VI THE MANNER OF PREPARATION
Now, they [the adults] are disposed to that justice when, aroused and aided by divine grace, receiving faith by hearing,[21] they are moved freely toward God, believing to be true what has been divinely revealed and promised, especially that the sinner is justified by God by his grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus;[22] and when, understanding themselves to be sinners, they, by turning themselves from the fear of divine justice, by which they are salutarily aroused, to consider the mercy of God, are raised to hope, trusting that God will be propitious to them for Christ’s sake; and they begin to love Him as the fountain of all justice, and on that account are moved against sin by a certain hatred and detestation, that is, by that repentance that must be performed before baptism;[23] finally, when they resolve to receive baptism, to begin a new life and to keep the commandments of God.
Of this disposition it is written: He that cometh to God, must believe that he is, and is a rewarder to them that seek him;[24] and, Be of good faith, son, thy sins are forgiven thee;[25] and, The fear of the Lord driveth out sin;[26] and, Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost;[27] and, Going, therefore, teach ye all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you;[28] finally, Prepare your hearts unto the Lord.[29]
Still Trent Session VI
Notice the section which I bolded. It enumerates the things a convert must do before Baptism. And the key word here is “must”. If that isn’t done, the person won’t be baptized. So,
Do these works, you are baptized.
Don’t do these works, you will not be baptized.
These works avail or benefit one in his goal to be baptized.
Let’s break it down.
Now, they [the adults]
This is instruction is for adults.
are disposed to that justice when, aroused and aided by divine grace,
who have received the unmerited grace of calling
receiving faith by hearing,[21]
Notice that this grace results in “faith”. Yes. This is important because it means that faith is not first received in Baptism. Baptism supplements our initial faith with another gift of faith.
they are moved freely toward God,
The faithful convert then approaches God of his own volition.
believing to be true what has been divinely revealed and promised,
Because he has come to believe the Word of God.
especially that the sinner is justified by God by his grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus;[22]
Notice again, this is pre-justification, pre-baptism. This individual is looking forward to the justification of Jesus Christ.
and when, understanding themselves to be sinners, they, by turning themselves from the fear of divine justice, by which they are salutarily aroused, to consider the mercy of God,
These converts have done what the word “convert” describes. They have turned away from their previously sinful ways and because of their fear of hell, are asking for the mercy of God.
are raised to hope, trusting that God will be propitious to them for Christ’s sake;
And, they sincerely believe that God will hear their prayers because of the merits of Jesus Christ.
and they begin to love Him as the fountain of all justice,
And they begin to love God because of His mercy and grace.
and on that account are moved against sin by a certain hatred and detestation,
And simultaneously begin to hate all which God hates.
that is, by that repentance that must be performed before baptism;
So, they turn away from sin, as they are obliged to do BEFORE baptism.
All this, they must do, before they receive the justification of Jesus Christ. Before they are regenerated.
Conclusion
Well, that’s all I’ve got. Well, no, just one more thing. I don’t know if you noticed, but Chapter VI, above, is merely the basis for that which we call the Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults (RCIA), today. And, if the Catholic Church does not consider that works before Baptism hold any value or merit, why does she REQUIRE that these works be performed before one is allowed to be baptized?
Do these works, you are baptized.
Don’t do these works, you will not be baptized.
By definition, RCIA leads to Baptism. By definition, the works required to be performed in RCIA, avail one of Baptism.
Nothing matters except works of faith and love (Gal 5:6) Photo by cottonbro on Pexels.com
Some people say that the Catholic Church Teaches that “good works done before justification are of no avail for justification”. But, is that true. In this article, we will go over the reasons why it is false. God alone judges the merit of our works. And He alone decides if they have merit.
Let’s get started. James 2:24 says:
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
James 2:24
Obviously, this verse says that we are justified by faith and works. If that is true, then it is because God judges our works to be meritorius. That should be enough to disprove the statements above. Since, what it means is that an unjustified person is justified by the faith and good works that he does before he is justified.
So, we’re basically done. The Catholic Church does not contradict Scripture. But, these folks are persistent, and they latch on to another statement from the Church, in the documents of the Council of Trent, which they don’t understand. So, they’ll say, “No, the Church says, “and we are therefore said to be justified gratuitously, because none of those things that precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification.”
In so saying, they focus on this part of that statement, “none of those things that precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification.” And they read it as though it says, “God will not reward man for anything, neither faith nor good works, which he does before justification.”
But that is simply takes the statement out of context. Let’s go to the pertinent section.
CHAPTER VIII HOW THE GRATUITOUS JUSTIFICATION OF THE SINNER BY FAITH IS TO BE UNDERSTOOD
But when the Apostle says that man is justified by faith and freely,[44] these words are to be understood in that sense in which the uninterrupted unanimity of the Catholic Church has held and expressed them, namely, that we are therefore said to be justified by faith, because faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation and root of all justification, without which it is impossible to please God[45] and to come to the fellowship of His sons; and we are therefore said to be justified gratuitously, because none of those things that precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification.
For, if by grace, it is not now by works, otherwise, as the Apostle says, grace is no more grace.[46]
Council of Trent, Session VI, Chapter VIII
What is this about? It is a Teaching which attempts to settle some apparent contradictions in Scripture. As we can see, James 2:24 says we are justified by faith and works. But, Rom 3:24 seems to say the exact opposite.
They are justified freely by his grace through the redemption in Christ Jesus,
Romans 3:24
Some people read this as though Scripture says that we are neither justified by faith or works, but by the grace of God.
But, four verses down, St. Paul also says this:
28 For we consider that a person is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
Romans 3:28
So, is it by faith and works (James 2:24), by grace (Romans 3:24) or by faith apart from works (Romans 3:28). This is what Trent VI, Chapter VIII is attempting to explain for us. So, let’s go through that Teaching, point by point.
CHAPTER VIII HOW THE GRATUITOUS JUSTIFICATION OF THE SINNER BY FAITH IS TO BE UNDERSTOOD
The first thing to note. The title is focuses on the confusion between “gratuitous” justification (by grace) and justification by faith. By it’s ommission, it is clear there is no confusion with the doctrine of justification by faith and works. They are simply explaining what the Apostle means when he says by justified faith apart from works and justified by grace.
But when the Apostle says that man is justified by faith and freely,[44] these words are to be understood in that sense in which the uninterrupted unanimity of the Catholic Church has held and expressed them, namely, that we are therefore said to be justified by faith, because faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation and root of all justification, without which it is impossible to please God[45]and to come to the fellowship of His sons;
Notice the words, “said to be” justified by faith. In other words, we are justified by faith and works, but only ‘said to be’ justified by faith because it is impossible to please God by works which are done without faith. What are those works which are done without faith? Usually, they are sins. When people are doing things against their conscience or without the intent of glorifying God, they usually commit evil acts which are against the Ten Commandments.
Are there any good works which are done without faith in God which are not sins? For example, if a pagan buys his mom some flowers out of love for her? Does that please God? I say, “yes”. Does it lead to justification? God alone can answer that. If it is the sole good deed he does in his entire life, I doubt it. But if his life is full of good deeds for his fellow man, then I answer in the hope of God’s goodness and mercy, he will be saved.
But that is besides the point. Suffice to say that the Church is here saying that we are justified by faith and works, but said to be justified by faith and freely, because the Apostle assumes that faith includes good works. This is easily proven true by something else that St. Paul said:
For it is not those who hear the law who are just in the sight of God; rather, those who observe the law will be justified.
Romans 2:13
Those who observe the law, that is, do the good works of the Ten Commandments, will be justified.
and we are therefore said to be justified gratuitously, because none of those things that precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification.
So, first thing to point out. This is another case of “said to be”. The Church Teaches we are justified by faith and works. But also says that we can be “said to be” justified by faith apart from works. And that it can also be “said to be” that we are justified by grace and freely, apart from faith or works. But it does not say that “God will not reward man for any good works which he does before justification.” So what does it mean that none of those things that precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification.
In my opinion, it’s a statement of equivalence. It’s comparing the value of faith and works, to the value of justification. And it is saying, “you know, our faith and works are not enough to purchase justification. We have no right to demand to receive justification based upon our faith and works”. That is why justification is, again, SAID TO BE, a gift. Because nothing that we do, neither our faith nor our works, are enough, to obtain justification.
For, if by grace, it is not now by works, otherwise, as the Apostle says, grace is no more grace.[46]
So, the Apostle says, its not by faith, its not by works, its not by faith and works combined. It is a gift of God.
So, if our faith and works do not equal the value of justification, why does the Catholic Church Teach that God rewards our faith and works with justification? Why not simply Teach that is it by grace?
It can be said that we are justified by grace because the faith and good works which God requires us to do in order to be justified, are not worth the value of justification.
It can also be said that we are justified by faith apart from works because God is only pleased by those works which are done for His glory. Those are good works done by faith and love.
And it is true that we are justified by faith and works because God made a pact with mankind that anyone who kept His commandments would be justified. God made our faith and works equal to the value of justification because of His mercy.
but showing love down to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Exodus 20:6 New American Bible (Revised Edition)
Here is how St. Thomas Aquinas put it:
I answer that, Merit and reward refer to the same, for a reward means something given anyone in return for work or toil, as a price for it. Hence, as it is an act of justice to give a just price for anything received from another, so also is it an act of justice to make a return for work or toil. Now justice is a kind of equality, as is clear from the Philosopher (Ethic. v, 3), and hence justice is simply between those that are simply equal; but where there is no absolute equality between them, neither is there absolute justice, but there may be a certain manner of justice, as when we speak of a father’s or a master’s right (Ethic. v, 6), as the Philosopher says. And hence where there is justice simply, there is the character of merit and reward simply. But where there is no simple right, but only relative, there is no character of merit simply, but only relatively, in so far as the character of justice is found there, since the child merits something from his father and the slave from his lord.
Now it is clear that between God and man there is the greatest inequality: for they are infinitely apart, and all man’s good is from God. Hence there can be no justice of absolute equality between man and God, but only of a certain proportion, inasmuch as both operate after their own manner. Now the manner and measure of human virtue is in man from God. Hence man’s merit with God only exists on the presupposition of the Divine ordination, so that man obtains from God, as a reward of his operation, what God gave him the power of operation for, even as natural things by their proper movements and operations obtain that to which they were ordained by God; differently, indeed, since the rational creature moves itself to act by its free-will, hence its action has the character of merit, which is not so in other creatures.
I start every day, for the past year or so, with these three prayers. I’ve known about these prayers for a long time, but one day it dawned on me that they tell the entire Gospel, from Christ’s birth to His Resurrection.
And the Word was made flesh Photo by Pixabay on Pexels.com
The Angelus
The Angel of the Lord declared to Mary:
*TheAnd she conceived of the Holy Spirit.*
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
Behold the handmaid of the Lord:
Be it done unto me according to Thy word.
Hail Mary….
And the Word was made Flesh: And dwelt among us
Hail Mary….
Pray for us, O Holy Mother of God, that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.
Let us pray: Pour forth, we beseech Thee, O Lord, Thy grace into our hearts; that we, to whom the incarnation of Christ, Thy Son, was made known by the message of an angel, may by His Passion and Cross be brought to the glory of His Resurrection, through the same Christ Our Lord. Amen.
SEVEN SORROWS OF MARY
Instructions: Meditate on the mystery and pray a Hail Mary, seven total.
1 The prophecy of Simeon. (St. Luke 2:34, 35) Hail Mary…. 2 The flight into Egypt. (St. Matthew 2:13, 14) Hail Mary…. 3 The loss of the Child Jesus in the temple. (St. Luke 2: 43-45) Hail Mary…. 4 The meeting of Jesus and Mary on the Way of the Cross. Hail Mary…. 5 The Crucifixion. Hail Mary…. 6 The taking down of the Body of Jesus from the Cross. Hail Mary…. 7 The burial of Jesus Hail Mary….
Regina Coeli
Queen of Heaven, rejoice. Alleluia. For He, whom thou wast worthy to bear. Alleluia. Has risen as He said. Alleluia. Pray for us to God. Alleluia. V. Rejoice and be glad, O Virgin Mary. Alleluia. R. Because the Lord is truly risen, Alleluia.
Let us pray: O God, Who by the Resurrection of Thy Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, hast been pleased to give joy to the whole world, grant we beseech Thee, that through the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary, His Mother, we may attain the joys of eternal life. Through the same Christ, our Lord. Amen.
I hope you enjoy them and that they give you as much joy and blessing as they have to me.
And the Angel of the Lord declared unto Mary Photo by Pixabay on Pexels.com
Order in the court! Photo by Ekaterina Bolovtsova on Pexels.com
There are those who claim for themselves a saving faith. They go around saying, “I am saved because I have faith. And faith alone, saves.” But, search the Scriptures as you might, Abraham never said that. Scripture says that Abraham believed God and therefore was saved. But Scripture never records Abraham bragging about this fact.
And when we go to the New Testament, the Apostle says:
1 Corinthians 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man’s judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. 4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
This post was not addressed to me, so I only responded to it in passing, back then. However, just for practice, I’d like to write that which I should have said, had I had the time, back then.
Joe Cipriani says:
How can I undeerstand it, without someone to guide me? Acts 8:31 Photo by nappy on Pexels.com
I encouraged Catholics to look at the facts from the Bible, compare to what the Catholic Church teaches, and make an informed decision; to think for themselves.
Basically, you’re giving us your way of learning the Word of God, as opposed to the Bible way. Here’s what the Bible says we should do:
Hebrews 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
And again:
Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? 31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me?
If that makes me rude; then you have an interesting definition.
I have several reasons why that makes you rude.
1st. Your claims are unbiblical. You claim to be a bible alone follower, yet your claims show no sign of that. You make up rules as you go along, rules which contraduct the Bible, as I have shown and then you attribute them to the Bible. That’s what it appears to be.
Next. You exalt yourself above the Bible you claim to follow. Of course, this is related to number one, above, because, logically, if you make up your own rules which you want us to follow and which contradict the Bible, then you have made yourself a higher authority than the Bible.
Then, you exalt yourself above the Church. The Bible tells us to listen to the Church, not to anonymous people on the internet. Not to strangers on the street. But even though you don’t know us, you want us to listen to you, above and beyond the Teaching of Scripture and over the authority of the Church.
And it logically follows that you also exalt yourself above us. You think that because you have decided to abandon the Teachings of Jesus Christ, we must now follow your example.
But I understand. As a defender of the Catholic faith it is your job to counter, deflect, or otherwise discredit those who oppose the teachings of the Church.
I believe it is my job to uphold the truth. Whereas, it is easy to show where you have erred. So, yes, I counter your errors with the truth. I counter your fallacies with the truth. I discredit the false logic you presented with the truth which Jesus has passed down through the Church in Tradition and Scripture.
No offense intended; none taken.
Same here.
Note I said the teachings of the Church – not the people.
It doesn’t really matter, as I have debunked the premise of your argument and thus disproven your conclusions. However, I can continue to show how you have made more than the errors I have brought to light, above.
As for the use of the Hebrew word ʾaḥēr being translated as ‘strange’ – the Catholic Duay-Rheims is the only Bible translation I am aware which translates it that way. Not even your own Catholic New Jerusalem Bible translates it that way. Exodus 20:3 (NJB) ‘You shall have no other gods to rival me. (Hebrew word appears 166 times in OT. Most common translation to English is “other” or “another”. Most modern Bibles never translate the word as strange and found only 1 Bible that translated it more than once as strange. Though given the number of translations there are, I may have missed one along the line.)
I don’t get your point. Whether it be “strange” or “other”, the idea which is communicated does not change. We only worship one God.
Having said that – where one commandment ends and anther begins or haggling over how one might translate a single word from Hebrew/Greek to English are not the most critical issues to this discussion.
The issue is and still stands – can man (a created being) change the terms of the covenant of God? The Catholic Church say yes. I say the Bible does not support the claim.
Which man are you talking about? Jesus Christ is man and God. And He made a few changes to the Covenant. Let me show you:
Matt 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
2. And also. Jesus Christ, God the 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity, gave man authority to bind and loose:
Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
By this authority, the Church changed the day that we celebrate the Sabbath. Note, however, that the Spirit of the Commandment was not changed. Simply the letter.
As I noted to De Maria – there is no record of the any commandment being changed by the apostles in the NT.
The Catholic Church has not changed the Spirit of any Commandment. Only the letter. This is easy to explain. The Catholic Church continues to celebrate the Sabbath, but on Sunday. The Catholic Church continues to worship one God, the Holy Trinity. Because we have come to a New Dispensation with better promises than the Old.
In fact, the exact opposite is stated. Here is a small excerpt from my study notes on covenants in the Bible,. [Note: There are at least 20 covenants between God and man in the Bible. Similar number discussed between men and nations. Hebrew berît (284x) Greek diathēkē (33x)]
Anything can be called a Covenant. We recognize the 7 that God explicitly made with man.
The Adamic Covenant.
The Noahtic Covenant.
The Abrahamic Covenant.
The Mosaic Covenant.
The Davidic Covenant
The New Covenant in the Blood of Jesus.
The future Covenant when the Father makes Jesus’ enemies His footstool.
QUESTION: What is the New Covenant?
BIBLE SAYS: Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my LAWS into their minds, and WRITE them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
The Bible says much more. In order for one to enter into the New Covenant, one must eat of the Eucharist.
Matt 26: 27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
New Testament means New Covenant.
COMMENT: OT – law written on stone; Ezekiel – God will take our hearts of stone and make them flesh; NT – law written on our hearts
True.
QUESTION: Why was a New Covenant necessary?
The only thing necessary is God. God did not institute the New Covenant from necessity. He instituted it because of His love and mercy.
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
BIBLE SAYS: Hebrews 8:7-8 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second. 8 For he finds fault with THEM…
COMMENT: The fault was with the people, not the terms of the covenant.
Agreed. But God foretold to them that they would fail to keep the Covenant.
Deuteronomy 28:15-68 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee: Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field…..
QUESTION: If the terms of the Old and New Covenant are the same (i.e.: Ten Commandments), how then is it a better covenant?
Because of the grace which God gives us in the Sacraments. Let me explain. Look at Heb 11. Do you see all those righteous saints listed, therein? Now read the last two lines:
Hebrews 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
But what happens with us? These good people struggled all their lives in obedience to God, but did not receive the promise and were not made perfect. They were not washed of their sins and could not enter heaven, not before Jesus died upon the Cross.
But we, are washed of our sins when we are baptized:
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
And once we are baptized, we walk amongst the Saints who are in heaven. Yes, the very same people listed in Hebrews 11:
Hebrews 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Do you remember the Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard? We receive God’s grace of salvation while we are yet living.
BIBLE SAYS: Hebrews 8:6 But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant HE mediates is better, since it is enacted on BETTER PROMISES.
COMMENT: I have found about 50 verses from the Bible speaking about the superiority of the New Covenant – with Christ always at the center. My study is not done. I suspect I will find many more.
Here’s a couple that you reject. They are in Scripture.
There were no saints in heaven during OT times. We walk amongst the Saints, right now. Heb 12:22-24
There was no washing of sins in the Old Testament. Our sins are washed away in Baptism. Acts 22:16
We offer the Body of Christ. They offered bulls and goats. Heb 10:10
QUESTION: How did Paul describe the difference between the Old and New Covenants?
BIBLE SAYS: Galatians 4:22-23 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through PROMISE.
The Bible gives a better description:
This is St. Paul’s description of the Old Testament:
Hebrews 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest 19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more 20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart 21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:
and this is his description of the New.
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
COMMENT: Read Galatians 4:21-31 for the full context. In short: God promised Abraham he would be a father of a great nation but he had a problem, no son. Abraham waited many years and when no son came, Abraham and Sarah decided to try to fulfill God’s Promise by human effort – hence Ismael. But God delivered on His Promise using His divine effort – hence Isaac. Old = human effort; New = divine effort.
For some reason, bible alone people neglect the time which you describe above as “Abraham waited many years”. As though he just sat around. But, about that time period, Scripture says:
Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Even St. Paul says:
Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
So this brings us to an interesting question, how then does God accomplish writing the law on hearts and minds? Through Jesus – His life as example and His death a reminder of both God’s love for us AND the fullness of what evil will do.
John 3:16 “For GOD so loved the world, that he GAVE his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Above you mention that Jesus’ life is an example to us. But do you mean it? What have you learned from Christ’s example? Do you follow Christ’s example as Scripture instructs us to do?
1 Peter 2:21For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
My prayer is all who read this will take to prayer, go to the Bible to find for themselves what the Bible truly teaches about the character of God.
My prayer is that you and all who read this will go to the Bible and encounter the Church which put the Bible together and wrote the New Testament. The Church which Jesus Christ established and who represents Jesus Christ in this world.
We worship a loving God who like the Father in the story of the prodigal son is waiting for us with open arms.
Amen. Notice that the Prodigal Son returned to the Father and asked forgiveness. But what does God do to those who do not repent of their sins?
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
And again:
Romans 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
He is not some ruthless dictator who the only way to receive His grace is to sacrifice Jesus.
He is not a ruthless dictator. He is a loving Father who resents it when the people whom He sacrificed His Son to save, wilfully neglect the suffering and death His Son endured for their salvation.
Heb 10:
28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
His grace if freely given to those who turn to Him.
and obey.
Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
John 14:9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; …(Next to John 3:16 one of my top 5 verses of the Bible.)
That’s wonderful. Those are great verses. Don’t make the mistake of leaving out the verses which warn you not to toy with God. He is not here so that you can make up your own religion. God is love. But He is also to be feared.
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
Obey the Church. Jesus Christ did not establish the Church so that you could thumb your nose at it. Photo by Pixabay on Pexels.com
my question is: Why use items/images made by man, to represent God,
The logic follows from the fact that God became man and therefore, can be seen.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
and kneel, kiss, pray, worship before these?
I’m glad you placed the word “before” in there. You are correct, we do not worship them. We worship God, who has made Himself man and entered our history. We thus know what He looks like and may, therefore, love Him while looking at His image.
Maybe you’re one of those rare people who don’t carry around photos of those whom you love. When I look at the photos, they remind me of those whom I love. I don’t love the photos. I love the people they represent.
How can man, a creature, create an image of God, the creator?
God did that when He created man.
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
And again when He became man:
Gal 4: But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Man cannot fathom who God is and we ahould avoid using a very limited representation of God. Not even to aid worship. That worship is a lie and strange! Who has possession of the image of God?
All who believe in Jesus Christ.
Any man-made drawing/sculpture/doll/picture/crude representation of God does not render a Just, Truthful image of our Creator! Its a disgrace and shameful rendition. God is Spirit and we must worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.
Jesus Christ is God and we do worship Him in Spirit and Truth.
Who made the statue of ‘St. Peter’ in Rome?
I don’t know.
Was this sculpture taken from ‘Zeus’?
I think it was. But it doesn’t represent Zeus. It represents St. Peter.
In Revelations 22:6-19, John was rebuff for trying to worship the messenger Angel. We cant worship saints and angels.
We don’t. We give them the reverence and love they deserve.
Philemon 1:5 Hearing of thy love and faith, which thou hast toward the Lord Jesus, and toward all saints;
You have come to the spirits of just men made perfect Photo by Julia Volk on Pexels.com
Photo by Miguel u00c1. Padriu00f1u00e1n on Pexels.com
Preface: This was really weird and hard to fathom what he was getting at. Apparently, Joe did not believe in hell. Anyway….
Joe Cipriani says:
Third and final comment:
Third Witness: John 3:16 The most beloved verse in Christianity is John 3:16, which states:
“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”
Definitely a beautiful verse.
Question: What does ‘perish’ mean? — To die or be destroyed through violence Question: What does it mean to ‘die’? — To cease to exist
Actually, death has a very specific Biblical meaning. I’m surprised a man who declares himself to be guided by Scripture alone, does not know this. Here’s is how the Scripture defines death:
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
James 2:26
So, “to die” is to have your spirit separated from your body.
In similar manner, Paul made this statement:
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus. (Rom. 6:23)
Life thru Christ. Death thru sin. Jesus said it. Paul said it. Yet what do vast majority of Christian denominations teach – Catholic and Protestant alike?
•Everyone has eternal life, the only difference is where one lives
•The lost will suffer for eternity burning in hellfire
•The saved will be in heaven
Uh, yeah, again, you haven’t read Scripture very carefully. Let’s look at what Jesus said to the sinners whom He called the goats in Matt 25.
41 [c]Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ 44 [d]Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ 45 He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ 46 And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Matthew 25:41-46 NAB
ETERNAL fire, ETERNAL punishment.
Is there anyone that does not have at least one loved one or dear friend who has rejected Christ? And the saved will be in heaven looking across the gulf watching the lost suffer. And we are supposed to be happy?
You’d better start praying for your loved ones now. Better yet, you’d better come to the Catholic Church now, otherwise, it might be your Catholic relatives praying feeling sad for you.
So what is the character of God portrayed by Catholic and non-Catholic alike?
•God is love •But reject My salvation •I will burn you in hellfire for all eternity
And you wonder why so many reject Christianity? I continue…
God is love. He even loves those who rejected Him and decided they preferred to go to hell. Why do so many reject Christianity? Because they want the easy way out. They think they, like you, can make their own reality. But, in the end, God alone is the Truth.
GOD’S PRESENCE SYMBOLIZED AS FIRE How many times in scripture is the presence of God revealed as ‘fire’? Here are just a few.
Our God is a consuming fire! Photo by Pixabay on Pexels.com
•Moses and the burning bush (Ex. 3:2) •Elijah taken up in a fiery chariot (2 Ki. 2:11) •Lucifer (before becoming Satan) walked among the ‘fiery stones’ (Ez. 28:14) •Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego cast into the fiery furnace (Dan. 3:19-20) •Tongues of fire at Pentecost (Acts 2:3)
But my favorite is when Aaron’s sons Nadab and Abihu offered profane fire.
So fire went out from the Lord and devoured them… (Lev. 10:2) So they went near and carried them by their tunics… (Lev. 10:5)
Fire destroyed them but their garments were not harmed. Hum…
You make no point at all. But I’ll let you in on a little secret. Hell is eternal. But there is only one eternal Being. Who is He?
I leave you with this statement about the ultimate end to Satan. Ezekiel 28:18 states:
Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
But if you don’t believe Peter about Christ having died ONCE, why should you believe Jesus – who is God – who cannot lie – when He says people will perish and He will turn Satan into ashes.
Lol! I think I’ve proven, beyond a doubt, that it is Catholics who believe Scripture and you don’t.
Final Comments: (A)When I write to blogs like this – my hope is that there may be one or two people who are truly seeking God’s truth. That they will take what I have written in prayer to God and study for themselves what is truth.
And I hope, that when I write to blogs like this, people will do what Scripture tells them to do and go to the Catholic Church for their answers about God.
(B)For the record, the Apostles did not change the Passover as you claim. They understood the principle of type/antitype. Types are stories and events in the Bible which are designed to teach us about God and the plan of salvation. Abraham – go sacrifice your son. Jesus to Nicodemus – as Moses lifted up the serpent, so must the Son of Man. The Exodus journey is the plan of salvation acted out with Christ as the Passover lamb. The Tabernacle (and subsequent Temples) were given in pattern as a remembrance of the Exodus deliverance.
If you only knew what you were talking about. Yes, types and antitypes are a thing. But they lead to Catholic Teaching. Yes, Abraham – go sacrifice your son as the Father sacrificed His Son. And also, notice that God will provide the lamb. And notice what the Apostle says about the Paschal (Passover) lamb:
7 [a]Clear out the old yeast, so that you may become a fresh batch of dough, inasmuch as you are unleavened. For our paschal lamb, Christ, has been sacrificed. 8 Therefore, let us celebrate the feast, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
1 Cor 5:7-8
Our Passover Lamb has been sacrificed – Who is that?
John the Baptist’s Testimony to Jesus. 29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God,[a] who takes away the sin of the world.
John 1:29 New American Bible (Revised Edition)
Let us keep the Feast – What is that?
25 We should not stay away from our assembly,[a] as is the custom of some, but encourage one another, and this all the more as you see the day drawing near.
26 [b]If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins 27 but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who rejects the law of Moses[c] is put to death without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Do you not think that a much worse punishment is due the one who has contempt for the Son of God, considers unclean the covenant-blood by which he was consecrated, and insults the spirit of grace? 30 We know the one who said:
“Vengeance is mine; I will repay,” and again:
“The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Hebrews 10:25-31 New American Bible (Revised Edition)
It’s the Mass.
(C)Jesus rebuked Nicodemus because he did not know a man must be born again – that is changed in character – to enter into the kingdom of heaven. Jacob becomes Israel is just one of dozens of stories in the OT which teach this principle. Jesus rebuked Nicodemus for lacking the spiritual eyesight to know this.
Therefore, you should be careful. God has put the Catholic Church here to lead you to salvation. She is here to educate you on the Wisdom of God. But you keep thumbing your nose at Her.
10 so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the principalities and authorities[a] in the heavens.
Ephesians 3:10 New American Bible (Revised Edition)
The most beloved verse in Christianity is John 3:16, which states:“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”
Question: What does ‘perish’ mean?
— To die or be destroyed through violence
There is more than one meaning of the word.
per•ish pĕr′ĭsh►
intransitive verb To die or be destroyed, especially in a violent or untimely manner.
intransitive verb To pass from existence; disappear gradually.
intransitive verb To spoil or deteriorate.
Question: What does it mean to ‘die’?
— To cease to exist
Hm? That’s not a very biblical answer. Jesus said:
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
So, if a person believes in Jesus Christ, he does not cease to exist when he dies. Scripture further says:
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
How can those who have died, rise, when you say they have ceased to exist?
In similar manner, Paul made this statement:For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus. (Rom. 6:23)Life thru Christ. Death thru sin. Jesus said it. Paul said it. Yet what do vast majority of Christian denominations teach – Catholic and Protestant alike?•Everyone has eternal life, the only difference is where one lives
That is the Biblical Teaching. Listen:
Matt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
•The lost will suffer for eternity burning in hellfire
Correct.
•The saved will be in heaven
Correct. Jesus said so.
Is there anyone that does not have at least one loved one or dear friend who has rejected Christ?
I don’t know.
And the saved will be in heaven looking across the gulf watching the lost suffer.
I think they will have better things to do.
And we are supposed to be happy?
Yes.
So what is the character of God portrayed by Catholic and non-Catholic alike?
•God is love
Yes.
•But reject My salvation
Your salvation is none of my business. That is between you and God. I will do my best to assist you in your salvation, but ultimately, it is between you and God.
•I will burn you in hellfire for all eternity And you wonder why so many reject Christianity?
I continue…GOD’S PRESENCE SYMBOLIZED AS FIRE
How many times in scripture is the presence of God revealed as ‘fire’? Here are just a few.
•Moses and the burning bush (Ex. 3:2) •Elijah taken up in a fiery chariot (2 Ki. 2:11) •Lucifer (before becoming Satan) walked among the ‘fiery stones’ (Ez. 28:14) •Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego cast into the fiery furnace (Dan. 3:19-20) •Tongues of fire at Pentecost (Acts 2:3)But my favorite is when Aaron’s sons Nadab and Abihu offered profane fire.So fire went out from the Lord and devoured them… (Lev. 10:2)
I’m not sure what any of that has to do with our discussion. Are you insinuating that God and Satan are one and the same?
So they went near and carried them by their tunics… (Lev. 10:5)Fire destroyed them but their garments were not harmed. Hum…I leave you with this statement about the ultimate end to Satan. Ezekiel 28:18 states:Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
So, what I think you’re saying is that you believe that the wicked will be erased from existence. According to Jesus, whom you agree is God, the wicked will be punished in everlasting fire. So….? Do you believe that Jesus is God, or not?
But if you don’t believe Peter about Christ having died ONCE, why should you believe Jesus – who is God – who cannot lie – when He says people will perish and He will turn Satan into ashes.
There are many meanings for “perish”. One of them is “to die”. And the theological definition of death is the separation of the body and the soul:
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Final Comments:
(A)When I write to blogs like this – my hope is that there may be one or two people who are truly seeking God’s truth. That they will take what I have written in prayer to God and study for themselves what is truth.
That is my hope, as well. I don’t write so much to respond to the author. I know that those who respond to these subjects are pretty well baked-in to their sentiments. I write for those amongst the readers, who are still searching for the truth.
(B)For the record, the Apostles did not change the Passover as you claim.
The Apostles didn’t change the Passover. Christ did when He became the Paschal Lamb.
They understood the principle of type/antitype. Types are stories and events in the Bible which are designed to teach us about God and the plan of salvation. Abraham – go sacrifice your son. Jesus to Nicodemus – as Moses lifted up the serpent, so must the Son of Man. The Exodus journey is the plan of salvation acted out with Christ as the Passover lamb. The Tabernacle (and subsequent Temples) were given in pattern as a remembrance of the Exodus deliverance.
If you understood what you just wrote, you would understand why Jesus Christ is our Passover, in the Mass.
(C)Jesus rebuked Nicodemus because he did not know a man must be born again – that is changed in character – to enter into the kingdom of heaven.
That is part of it. But born again requires the washing of regeneration which is only provided by the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5).
Jacob becomes Israel is just one of dozens of stories in the OT which teach this principle. Jesus rebuked Nicodemus for lacking the spiritual eyesight to know this.
I’m afraid Jacob was not born again in his life, but was washed of the Holy Spirit in the after life. Scripture says so:
Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
One can only be washed of their sins and thus be made perfect, by being baptized:
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Well, too bad we couldn’t have had this conversation in real time. God bless you!
This is how I think I would have responded to this message, which was directed to me many years ago on another blog. This is a comment which followed the “Church and Commandment” post I published earlier.
Part 2 Photo by Miguel u00c1. Padriu00f1u00e1n on Pexels.com
The Catholic Church claims Peter was first Pope – yet you do not believe him. So if Catholics really believe Peter was the first pope – why then do you not believe the words he wrote?
We do. You simply don’t understand his words.
“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: (1 Peter 3:18)
”Peter clearly states Christ died ONCE for sin.
Suffered once. That includes His death, but is more encompassing. Thus, he also said:
1 Pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
What is the Catholic Mass but offering up Christ as a sacrifice again and again?
Lol. I think you realize that you have erred in this question. First, you confused suffering with death. Then, you confused death with sacrifice. Well, let’s go through it.
First. It is true that Jesus died once for all. He died once on Calvary in order that He might be sacrificed for all time. Let’s see what Scripture says:
1 Corinthians 5:6Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast,….
Why is Christ our Passover? Because He sacrificed Himself that we might repeatedly offer Him up. The Passover was offered up once a year. We offer the New Testament Passover, everyday, several times a day.
So if you do not believe the words of Peter,
We do believe Saint Peter’s words. This is your false premise which renders your conclusions false.
why should you believe anything else that quoted from the Bible?
We believe every single thing in the Bible. It is you who don’t. For example, you don’t believe in keeping Tradition. You have boasted that you keep the Bible alone. But the Bible says:
2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions….
From ‘Dignity and Duties of the Priest’ which you can find on any number of Jesuit Priesthood websites – and is also Ex Cathedra.…
Hahaha. You’re trying to sound like a Catholic. Do you even know what that means?
Jesus has died to institute the priesthood. It was not necessary for the Redeemer to die in order to save the world; a drop of His Blood, a single tear, or prayer, was sufficient to procure salvation for all; ……Thus, by the celebration of a single Mass, in which he offers Jesus Christ in sacrifice, a priest gives greater honor to the Lord, than if all men by dying for God offered to Him the sacrifice of their lives.
…I find it a fascinating claim that it was not necessary for Christ to die for lost humanity.
It’s not a claim, it’s a fact. The logic is very simple. Jesus is God. God is self contained. God didn’t need to create humanity. Therefore, it was not necessary for God to die to save humanity. But since God did create humanity, God could have saved humanity anyway He wanted. Or He could simply have allowed humanity to die out, like the dinosaurs.
I also find it an interesting claim that Christ really died to institute the priesthood.
Lol. That’s typical Protestant either/or thinking. You say, “Christ can either die to save humanity or to institute the priesthood.” Whereas, we know that Christ died to institute the priesthood which would offer His sacrifice to save humanity.”
Though I am not sure why given the fact that God already had a priesthood.
In the Old Testament. The Levitical priesthood. But in the NT, He established the priesthood of Jesus Christ, which is like the priesthood of Melchizedek.
It makes one wonder what is the purpose of Christ being High Priest if we still have sinful men interceding for people? Hebrews 4:14 reads:“Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.”
Key words, “let us hold fast our profession.” Have you not also read in Scripture:
1 Tim 4:14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
I’d like to address this question in more detail:
It makes one wonder what is the purpose of Christ being High Priest if we still have sinful men interceding for people?
Earlier, you said,
Though I am not sure why given the fact that God already had a priesthood.
What is the Levitical priesthood, if not sinful men? But you seem to have no problem with it.
Secondly, let’s see what Scripture says about the intercession of sinful men for others:
1 Timothy 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
Apparently, Scripture has no qualms about sinful men interceding for people. Let’s see another:
2 Corinthians 5:20Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.
These men pray for us as though God did beseech us by them. And pray for us in Christ’s stead. Let’s look at another:
Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
These men give an account for our souls to God. That sounds like intercession to me.
CatholicBibleTalk 