Category: Authority

Fielding more anti-Catholic objections

Anti-Catholic said:

Good thing I’m not in that religious cult where free thinking is prohibited. It’s based in Rome, heard of it?

Again, I thank you for providing this statement. It makes it very simple to compare your teachings to Scripture and Catholic Doctrine to Scripture.

So, is so called “free thinking” approved of in Scripture? Let us see what Scripture says:
Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Not in that verse. No.
Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Not in that verse, either.
1 Timothy 4:16
Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Nor in that verse.
Romans 6:17
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Matthew 18:17
King James Version (KJV)
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Not there either. Can you provide any verse which supports or promotes “free thinking”?

Please ignore everything I say –

I’m doing my best.

but you can’t ignore the Bible.

We know. We follow the Teaching of Scripture diligently. It is the Teaching of the Church. The Church wrote the New Testament and canonized the Old and then bound them together in one Holy Book.

Is that arrogance? You’d only think so if you mistook what I said for what the Bible said. If you make that mistake, shame on you, not me.

Its not we who mistake what you say for what the Bible actually says. It is you confounding the two.

The Bible says sorcery and enchantment really exist (eg, Ex 7:11, Acts 8:9, Isaiah 47:12, Prov 6:13) –

That is Catholic Teaching. That is why we have Exorcists.

whether Jack Van Impe (“imp” means a devil) uses it is pure speculation.

I have no idea who this guy is nor what you guys are talking about. Carry on. No comment on my part.

Also, the Bible has a rapture (Rev 14:14-16; Matthew 25:1) and a rapture (2 Thess 2:6-7; 1 Cor 15:52)- if you can reconcile them some other way than one post-trib and other pre-trib, then go ahead.

Only the Father knows. I’ll leave it to Him to reveal it in His good time.

And if you can explain the mystery of James the son of Alphaeus who is Christ’s brother – without changing the text – then go ahead.

Easily. The word “adelphos” is used to mean “close or intimate friend” as in the following:

Mat 23:8 But 1161 be 2564 0 not 3361 ye 5210 called 2564 Rabbi 4461: for 1063 one 1520 is 2076 your 5216 Master 2519, [even] Christ 5547; and 1161 all 3956 ye 5210 are 2075 brethren 80.

All of the Apostles are brethren according to Christ.

Strong’s G80 – adelphos
ἀδελφός
Transliteration
adelphos

The word used there is adelphos.

Jhn 20:17 Jesus 2424 saith 3004 unto her 846, Touch 680 me 3450 not 3361; for 1063 I am 305 0 not yet 3768 ascended 305 to 4314 my 3450 Father 3962: but 1161 go 4198 to 4314 my 3450 brethren 80, and 2532 say 2036 unto them 846, I ascend 305 unto 4314 my 3450 Father 3962, and 2532 your 5216 Father 3962; and 2532 [to] my 3450 God 2316, and 2532 your 5216 God 2316.

This disproves the Protestant teaching that adelphos must always be a “brother of the womb”.

Ignore me every time –

Still doing my best.

but the Bible says what it says.

Yeah. And the Bible continually supports Catholic doctrine because it is based upon Catholic Teaching.

Why do you concern yourself so much with Mary while avoiding a Bible-based study of her?

Hm? It is you who concern yourself with denying the Bible based doctrines concerning the Mother of Our Lord.

Isn’t that rather ridiculous?

Your position is, yes.

We can thank Reformers for any Bible doctrine that stamps out men’s traditions –

No. It is precisely the opposite. The Reformers confounded the teaching of Scripture and have led many people astray, including you.

including the reformers’ traditions.

Any of their traditions which contradict the Teaching of the Catholic Church also contradict Scripture.

Traditions are fine unless the Bible says otherwise.

Exactly! Let me give you a clear example. Protestants say “justified by faith alone.” Scripture says:

James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Why should snake handling cults shock people more than Roman Catholics whipping themselves or crucifying themselves??

Why should Catholics whipping themselves or crucifying themselves shock people more than snake handling Christians?

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

1 Corinthians 9:27
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

1 Pet 4:1
Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

Let the Pope sit in this special little seat and acknowledge the supremacy of the King James Bible over everything – then we will have something worthwhile to unify around.

The King James Bible is a translation based in part upon St. Jerome’s Latin Vulgate. It is St. Jerome’s Latin Vulgate which is the best translation of the originals that ever existed.

That sordid bigot Leo X attacked Martin Luther and cut his church off from the work of God – which continued elsewhere.

It is the other way around. Martin Luther cut himself off from the work of God when he revolted against the Church.

Romanism went on to enacted the ludicrous “anathemas” in the Council of Trent – cutting itself off completely from Bible Christianity.

Still more error on your part. The Catholic Church did precisely what She was supposed to do when She condemned the heinous errors of the Protestants.

Luther wrote to the German princes that in view of Rome’s manifest failure to lead the flock of God, it was necessary that fellow Christians – who are all priests – appoint their own bishops. He was exactly right – 2 Tim 2:2.

He was wrong. He innovated and changed the Word of God. Thereby disobeying the verse you have provided in support of his heinous behavior:
2 Timothy 2:
2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

This is the support for Apostolic Succession. He flagrantly also violated this Scripture:
Hebrews 13:17
17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Of course, “pillar and ground of the truth” (1 Tim 3:15) isn’t a sarcastic title when applied to saved believers under Christ’s head – but it is when applied to Romanism under the pope’s head.

On the contrary, it is a perfect description of the Catholic Church. The term “saved believers” when applied to Protestants is irony in its purest form. It is they who deny the Fountains of God’s grace which are the Sacraments. The only vessels by which they can be saved in this life.

In that very chapter, 1 Timothy 3, Paul says Bishops should be married.

And in another verse he says that in order to better serve the Lord a man should remain unmarried:
1 Corinthians 7:32
But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:

Which verse carries the greater force in your opinion?

So please forgive me if I involuntarily snicker when somebody calls Rome the “pillar and ground of the truth.”

It is God whose forgiveness you should seek for belittling the Church which His Son sacrificed Himself to build:
Ephesians 5:
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

You aren’t aware of the “co-redemptrix” lobby? Once they get their way you will then have ample opportunity to “explain” how this didn’t deify Mary, like you explain so many other “consistencies” from 313 AD until the present.

Mary is co-redemptrix. It is a simple title which acknowledges that we are all fellow laborers with God and she chief among us because she brought Christ into the world:
1 Corinthians 3:9
For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building.

Remember your loyalty must be first and foremost to holy scripture.

First and foremost to God and His Word which is taught us in Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture by the One, Holy, Apostolic and Catholic Church.

If you think God doesn’t allow his people to be tested by a corrupt religious leadership run by the devil, then you need to re-read the lessons taught in the Old Testament.

I believe it. It is you being tested by the corrupt leadership which you follow and which has mainlined the sins of adultery (Matthew 5:32), abortion (abortifacent contraception), homosexuality (permits homosexual ministers and has written homosexual versions of Scripture), etc. etc.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Advertisements

Commentary on Matthew 16:13-23, the Rock

Gospel Mt 16:13-23

This is another wonderful passage which I frequently use to explain the Papacy to Protestants.  To anyone really.  The Bible text is in bold.

Jesus went into the region of Caesarea Philippiand he asked his disciples,

Jesus went to Caesarea Philippi and asked His disciples a question.  Now, the way it is phrased, it almost sounds as though Jesus went to Caesarea Philippi EXPRESSLY to ask the question which He asked.  But even more, to make the specific statement which He made.

I love to read Biblical commentaries because, I personally, have never been outside the U.S.  But Biblical commentaries can tell you so much about the context in which the Scriptures were written.  This one, I learned from reading one of Scott Hahn’s books.  Caesarea Philippi is a very special place.

In the time of Jesus, a river flowed through this area and went into a cave, a hole in a huge rock.  It was the belief of the Romans that this cave was the entrance into hell.   On the top of this rock, the Romans had constructed a temple, in our terms, a church to one of their gods.

And this sets up the rest of this Gospel.

“Who do people say that the Son of Man is?”

Jesus asked, “who do the people of Israel say that I am?”

They replied, “Some say John the Baptist, others Elijah,still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

They answered what they had overheard the people saying.  Some thought that Jesus was John the Baptist.  We recently saw that Herod thought that Jesus was the reincarnation of John the Baptist.  The disciples said that other people thought He was the second coming of Elijah, one of the greatest Old Covenant prophets.

He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”

But Jesus was just warming up.  He puts them on the spot with the next question.  “Who DO YOU, my students whom I have been guiding for at least two years now.  Who do you say that I am?”

Simon Peter said in reply,“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

And this is why St. Peter is one of my most beloved Saints.  There is no indication in this Gospel that he hesitated even one little bit.  “You are the Son of God who is to come into the world!” 

Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah.For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.

And Jesus says to him, “you are right.  But it isn’t because you are so brilliant.  You can only know this if you are given the inspiration from my Father in heaven.”

And so I say to you, you are Peter,and upon this rock I will build my Church,

“And now, since you have correctly revealed who I am, I will tell you who you are.  You are Rock and on this Rock I will build my Church.”

Right here, think back on where they are standing.  As Jesus says these words, I envision that His arms sweep out to point towards that huge rock in the horizon and the temple that sits on top.  But that is a Pagan church on top of that rock and that is a place where idolatry and orgies regularly take place.  Therefore, hell has prevailed upon that church.  Therefore, Jesus continues:

and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.

I will give you the keys to the Kingdom of heaven.Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven;and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Jesus then gives St. Peter the keys to the Kingdom of heaven.  Essentially saying, in my opinion, that St. Peter will have the power and authority to save people’s souls.

Then he strictly ordered his disciplesto tell no one that he was the Christ.

Then Jesus instructed His disciples to keep quiet about the fact that He is the Messiah.

From that time on, Jesus began to show his disciplesthat he must go to Jerusalem and suffer greatlyfrom the elders, the chief priests, and the scribes,and be killed and on the third day be raised.

At that time, Jesus also began to reveal that He would suffer greatly and die on the Cross in order to rise on the third day.

Then Peter took Jesus aside and began to rebuke him,“God forbid, Lord! No such thing shall ever happen to you.”

St. Peter, out of love and concern for Jesus, could not imagine these things happening to Him.

He turned and said to Peter,“Get behind me, Satan! You are an obstacle to me.You are thinking not as God does, but as human beings do.”

But Jesus instructed St. Peter that this is trick of Satan.  Jesus was sent to do the Father’s will and even His love for His Apostles will not sway Him from His appointed task.


If you found that interesting, see also Why did Jesus give Simon the name Rock

Does the Bible say that missing the Mass is a mortal sin?

The Catholic Church teaches that missing the Mass is a mortal sin.

Protestants object vehemently to this teaching. They claim that the Catholic Church oversteps its bounds when she requires her members to attend the Mass on pains of mortal sin. Many nominal Catholics, having been convinced of the Protestant argument, have fallen away because of it. But, what does the Bible say?

See the rest, here.

Sacred Tradition, milk and honey

On Craig’s blog, THOUGHT ON “MILK, HONEY, BAPTISM, AND THE DEATH OF TRADITION”, I made the following comment:

De Maria said:

  1. Craig said;  If Catholicism and Orthodoxy have preserved “Tradition,” why isn’t there milk and honey used during baptism?

    Because it is the Pope and the Church which holds the keys to the Kingdom. Not individual priests or Bishops.

    Believe it or not, tasting a delicious concoction of milk and honey used to be a very important baptismal tradition.

    I believe it.

    First, why is this a big deal? It is because they claim that a Sola Scriptura view leaves out important traditions and teachings that are not found in the Scripture, but rather in tradition.

    That is correct.

    To prove this viewpoint the will point to quotes from Fathers such as Basil of Caeserea that say something to the following effect:

    Of the beliefs and practices whether generally accepted or enjoined which are preserved in the Church, some we possess derived from written teaching; others we have delivered to us in a mystery by the apostles by the tradition of the apostles; and both of these in relation to true religion have the same force
    If such traditions have the “force” of true religion, why isn’t drinking milk mixed with honey something still required as part of the baptismal rite?

    Let’s talk about something a bit different. Just to make a comparison. God said, in His Word,

    Exodus 20:8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

    Those words and that Tradition was set forth by ALLMIGHTY GOD. Right?

    Do Christians still keep the Sabbath? Not in the eyes of the uninitiated. They see us keep the first day, that is, Sunday. Not the Sabbath. However, the word Sabbath has two meanings. One is 7 and is a reference the seventh day, which is Saturday in our calendar. The other is OATH. And we still keep the oath, except we keep it on Sunday Mass as a day of obligation and are free to make the oath on a daily basis in the daily Mass.

    So, why was it transferred, if God commanded us to keep it on Saturday? Because of the authority which Jesus Christ, (aka God) vested in the Catholic Church when He said, “the gates of hell will not prevail against it and I will give you the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven. What you lock on earth will be locked in heaven. What you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

    Therefore, the day of worship was changed to the first day of the week and you see no objection in the Scripture. In fact, the Scripture only mentions it in passing:

    Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

    Some apologists will say that maybe milk and honey was never quite so serious. However, it was.

    Do you think that the command to keep the Sabbath was serious? or not?

    Ok, now let’s examine what St. Jerome has to say. First, you are essentially like the Luciferians (No, it is not a reference to Satan). You are questioning the authority of the Catholic Church. So this is an excellent document to study. Let’s begin a bit earlier than you did, though.

    8. L. Thirsty men in their dreams eagerly gulp down the water of the stream, and the more they drink the thirstier they are. In the same way you appear to me to have searched everywhere for arguments against the point I raised, and yet to be as far as ever from being satisfied.

    And to me, you appear to be in the same situation as these men.

    Don’t you know that the laying on of hands after baptism and then the invocation of the Holy Spirit is a custom of the Churches?

    You do know that this is a reference to the Sacrament of Confirmation, right? Note how he calls it a custom or what we, today refer to as SacredTradition of the Church.

    Jerome writes Against the Luciferians:

    Do you demand Scripture proof? You may find it in the Acts of the Apostles.

    I doubt that you would accept that proof today. If you did, you would be Catholic.

    And even if it did not rest on the authority of Scripture the consensus of the whole world in this respect would have the force of a command.

    Now, he refers to the authority of the Tradition which is being practiced by the whole world at that time.

    For many other observances of the Churches, which are due to tradition, have acquired the authority of the written law, as for instance the practice of dipping the head three times in the laver,

    We still do that. Notice that he is not referring to full immersion. The Church has ever practiced pouring, sprinkling and immersion. And it has always been three times. And there is Scripture proof for all three.

    and then, after leaving the water, of tasting mingled milk and honey in representation of infancy; 

    We don’t do that anymore in the West. But it is not forbidden, as far as I know.

    and, again, the practices of standing up in worship on the Lord’s day,

    A reference to Sunday Worship, which before the invention of the “pews” by Protestants, was always standing.

    and ceasing from fasting every Pentecost; 

    You probably understand that to mean that we cease from fasting on the day of Pentecost. But, that is because Protestants celebrate single days, such as Christmas day, Easter Sunday, and perhaps, some, the day of Pentecost.

    But we don’t. We celebrate seasons. The Christmas season is 12 days long. Before that is the season of Advent. After Christmas is the season of Lent, which is forty days and we fast during that time. Then comes Easter and Easter Sunday is the first day of the Easter season which is simultaneously the first day of Pentecost. The day of Pentecost is 50 days after Easter. And we cease to fast during those 50 days. We begin to fast again, afterwards.

    and there are many other unwritten practices which have won their place through reason and custom.

    Yes sir. But, you don’t follow those. Because you make up your own mind how you will worship the Lord. Even though Scripture says:

    Hebrews 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

    So you see we follow the practice of the Church,

    Notice how he keeps repeating this phrase. Why? Because he recognizes the authority which Jesus Christ vested in the Church.

    although it may be clear that a person was baptized before the Spirit was invoked.

    What is he talking about? He is advising rebaptism of heretics. Do you know that the Catholic Church does not, usually, follow his advice on this matter? If you read the entire document, he is advising to rebaptize heretics. But, for the most part, the Church doesn’t follow and has never followed that advice. Yes, even Doctors of the Church have erred in their advice.

    The Church has always recognized that some heretics have a valid baptism. For instance, today, the Church does not recognize the Baptism of the Mormons. But recognizes all others of which I’m aware, Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, etc.

    But that wouldn’t bother St. Jerome. In fact, he may well be aware of that fact but is simply not thinking about it at the time that he is writing this document.

    Over 150 years previous, Tertullian wrote on another continent in De Corona in reference to baptism that “we taste first of all a mixture of milk and honey” and that is
    “sufficiently plain that you can vindicate the keeping of even unwritten tradition established by custom; the proper witness for tradition when demonstrated by long-continued observance.”

    Yep.

    Elsewhere, Hippolytus records the practice in his book “The Apostolic Tradition.” Doesn’t that mean it is Apostolic Tradition to have milk and honey with baptism? Or is he lying?

    Nope.

    Clement of Alexandria is an early, Eastern witness to the practice, just as Chromatius is a later western witness.

    Ok.

    Isn’t it clear that all of these men attest to the practice over centuries and that it was precisely the sort of extra-biblical tradition Basil was talking about. So, this begs the question, why do we not do it anymore when it was so clearly practiced as Apostolic Tradition in both the east and the west?

    Because the Church which the Holy Scriptures describe as the Pillar and Foundation of the Truth (1 Tim 3:15) and the teacher of the Wisdom of God (Eph 3:10) no longer requires it.

    Yet, the tradition died. Christ states that “[h]eaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away” (Luke 21:33). Clearly milk and honey could not be originally his words.

    Lol! That is because you don’t understand the “spiritual” meaning of the words. Now, let’s go back to the example of the Sabbath. Do we continue to hold that God given Tradition, or no? I say, “Yes!” Because we still hold to the day of the OATH. It is mandatory for Catholics to come to the Sunday Mass on pain of mortal sin.

    Do we still drink milk and honey? Yes. Spiritually. Because we enter the land of milk and honey when we are baptized.

    Of course, all of this begs the question: how do we know that another tradition attested to by such a wide witness is actually legitimate? The truth of the matter is, apart from the Scripture (which is defined as “God breathed” in 2 Tim 3:16), no tradition can be held with the same degree of certainty. You heard straight from the horse’s mouth, milk and honey had “the authority of the written law.” Yet now, it doesn’t.

    All law is subject to the authority of the law maker. In this case, God speaking through His Church. But you don’t believe that. But the Scriptures attest to this truth:

    2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.

    This is because there is not a single extra-biblical tradition that defines itself as literally breathed out by God. If God Himself did not breath it out, then how do you even know it is actually true with the same degree of certainty? Plain answer: you don’t.

    Now, let’s go through the Scriptures to find more defunct laws. You say you are guided by Scripture alone, right?

    Ok, do you, as a Christian, follow the Kosher laws?

    Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain…. from blood.

    And again, do you, keep the Saturday Sabbath?

    And, do you, require women to cover their heads in church? do you, baptize for the dead? do you consider the commandments mandatory?

    Those requirements are in Scripture. But Protestants no longer hold to them. They don’t have any excuse not to hold them since they claim to hold the authority of Scripture alone. Whereas, we understand that Christ placed His authority in the Church.

We aren’t Protestants

Craig Truglia says:
April 29, 2015 at 2:11 am
I’m not making myself an authority on anything. 

Yes, Craig, you are.

Let me explain, from Scripture.

Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Do you deny that Scripture is teaching, in this verse, that the Church is the Teacher of God’s word?

2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Do you deny that in this verse, Scripture is teaching that Christ speaks through His Church?

See, Craig, you are asking us to set Christ aside and listen to you. Because Christ speaks through His Church. Therefore, if you want us to set the Church aside and listen to you, you are asking us to set Christ aside.

The fact you cannot actually respond to what is written but instead lament that because I am not the Catholic Church, I am by default wrong, reflects a circular logic.

It is circular logic to you because you would never dream of NOT leaning upon your own understanding. But we obey Scripture:

Proverbs 3:5-6
Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

The truth is that, unless Protestants think they understand a doctrine, they won’t believe it. They, you, wouldn’t dream of accepting a doctrine unless you can quantify it in your own mind.

But we believe the Church whether we understand the Doctrine or not, because we believe Jesus Christ is speaking through the Church.

You can verify that whether I am apostate or you are, because verification means nothing to you.

On the contrary, we have verified that you contradict the Catholic Church and that means that you contradict Jesus Christ who speaks through His Church.

The sole authority is the Catholic Church, regardless of what earlier Catholics have written, what the Scripture says, or the internal logical consistency of present-day Catholic teachings (here prayers for the dead.)

The sole authority is God who established the Catholic Church and speaks through Her. It is she who wrote the New Testament based upon the Traditions passed down by Jesus Christ.

Decrying that I am not Catholic and therefore my opinion is invalid does not prove anything and it is an argument that only impresses the ignorant.

We don’t decry that you aren’t Catholic. We decry that you put yourself in authority over the Word of God. We decry that you put yourself above Jesus Christ.

We aren’t Protestants with whom you can quibble about the meaning of this and that word in Scripture. We aren’t Protestants with whom you can discover the meaning of the Scripture. We aren’t Protestants with whom you can invent new meanings to the Word of God.

We are Catholics. The true sons of Abraham. Who believe the Doctrines of Jesus Christ which have been passed down by the Catholic Church for 2000 years.

I hope you’re not insulted.