Tagged: Scripture alone

Fielding more anti-Catholic objections

Anti-Catholic said:

Good thing I’m not in that religious cult where free thinking is prohibited. It’s based in Rome, heard of it?

Again, I thank you for providing this statement. It makes it very simple to compare your teachings to Scripture and Catholic Doctrine to Scripture.

So, is so called “free thinking” approved of in Scripture? Let us see what Scripture says:
Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Not in that verse. No.
Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Not in that verse, either.
1 Timothy 4:16
Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Nor in that verse.
Romans 6:17
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Matthew 18:17
King James Version (KJV)
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Not there either. Can you provide any verse which supports or promotes “free thinking”?

Please ignore everything I say –

I’m doing my best.

but you can’t ignore the Bible.

We know. We follow the Teaching of Scripture diligently. It is the Teaching of the Church. The Church wrote the New Testament and canonized the Old and then bound them together in one Holy Book.

Is that arrogance? You’d only think so if you mistook what I said for what the Bible said. If you make that mistake, shame on you, not me.

Its not we who mistake what you say for what the Bible actually says. It is you confounding the two.

The Bible says sorcery and enchantment really exist (eg, Ex 7:11, Acts 8:9, Isaiah 47:12, Prov 6:13) –

That is Catholic Teaching. That is why we have Exorcists.

whether Jack Van Impe (“imp” means a devil) uses it is pure speculation.

I have no idea who this guy is nor what you guys are talking about. Carry on. No comment on my part.

Also, the Bible has a rapture (Rev 14:14-16; Matthew 25:1) and a rapture (2 Thess 2:6-7; 1 Cor 15:52)- if you can reconcile them some other way than one post-trib and other pre-trib, then go ahead.

Only the Father knows. I’ll leave it to Him to reveal it in His good time.

And if you can explain the mystery of James the son of Alphaeus who is Christ’s brother – without changing the text – then go ahead.

Easily. The word “adelphos” is used to mean “close or intimate friend” as in the following:

Mat 23:8 But 1161 be 2564 0 not 3361 ye 5210 called 2564 Rabbi 4461: for 1063 one 1520 is 2076 your 5216 Master 2519, [even] Christ 5547; and 1161 all 3956 ye 5210 are 2075 brethren 80.

All of the Apostles are brethren according to Christ.

Strong’s G80 – adelphos

The word used there is adelphos.

Jhn 20:17 Jesus 2424 saith 3004 unto her 846, Touch 680 me 3450 not 3361; for 1063 I am 305 0 not yet 3768 ascended 305 to 4314 my 3450 Father 3962: but 1161 go 4198 to 4314 my 3450 brethren 80, and 2532 say 2036 unto them 846, I ascend 305 unto 4314 my 3450 Father 3962, and 2532 your 5216 Father 3962; and 2532 [to] my 3450 God 2316, and 2532 your 5216 God 2316.

This disproves the Protestant teaching that adelphos must always be a “brother of the womb”.

Ignore me every time –

Still doing my best.

but the Bible says what it says.

Yeah. And the Bible continually supports Catholic doctrine because it is based upon Catholic Teaching.

Why do you concern yourself so much with Mary while avoiding a Bible-based study of her?

Hm? It is you who concern yourself with denying the Bible based doctrines concerning the Mother of Our Lord.

Isn’t that rather ridiculous?

Your position is, yes.

We can thank Reformers for any Bible doctrine that stamps out men’s traditions –

No. It is precisely the opposite. The Reformers confounded the teaching of Scripture and have led many people astray, including you.

including the reformers’ traditions.

Any of their traditions which contradict the Teaching of the Catholic Church also contradict Scripture.

Traditions are fine unless the Bible says otherwise.

Exactly! Let me give you a clear example. Protestants say “justified by faith alone.” Scripture says:

James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Why should snake handling cults shock people more than Roman Catholics whipping themselves or crucifying themselves??

Why should Catholics whipping themselves or crucifying themselves shock people more than snake handling Christians?

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

1 Corinthians 9:27
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

1 Pet 4:1
Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

Let the Pope sit in this special little seat and acknowledge the supremacy of the King James Bible over everything – then we will have something worthwhile to unify around.

The King James Bible is a translation based in part upon St. Jerome’s Latin Vulgate. It is St. Jerome’s Latin Vulgate which is the best translation of the originals that ever existed.

That sordid bigot Leo X attacked Martin Luther and cut his church off from the work of God – which continued elsewhere.

It is the other way around. Martin Luther cut himself off from the work of God when he revolted against the Church.

Romanism went on to enacted the ludicrous “anathemas” in the Council of Trent – cutting itself off completely from Bible Christianity.

Still more error on your part. The Catholic Church did precisely what She was supposed to do when She condemned the heinous errors of the Protestants.

Luther wrote to the German princes that in view of Rome’s manifest failure to lead the flock of God, it was necessary that fellow Christians – who are all priests – appoint their own bishops. He was exactly right – 2 Tim 2:2.

He was wrong. He innovated and changed the Word of God. Thereby disobeying the verse you have provided in support of his heinous behavior:
2 Timothy 2:
2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

This is the support for Apostolic Succession. He flagrantly also violated this Scripture:
Hebrews 13:17
17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Of course, “pillar and ground of the truth” (1 Tim 3:15) isn’t a sarcastic title when applied to saved believers under Christ’s head – but it is when applied to Romanism under the pope’s head.

On the contrary, it is a perfect description of the Catholic Church. The term “saved believers” when applied to Protestants is irony in its purest form. It is they who deny the Fountains of God’s grace which are the Sacraments. The only vessels by which they can be saved in this life.

In that very chapter, 1 Timothy 3, Paul says Bishops should be married.

And in another verse he says that in order to better serve the Lord a man should remain unmarried:
1 Corinthians 7:32
But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:

Which verse carries the greater force in your opinion?

So please forgive me if I involuntarily snicker when somebody calls Rome the “pillar and ground of the truth.”

It is God whose forgiveness you should seek for belittling the Church which His Son sacrificed Himself to build:
Ephesians 5:
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

You aren’t aware of the “co-redemptrix” lobby? Once they get their way you will then have ample opportunity to “explain” how this didn’t deify Mary, like you explain so many other “consistencies” from 313 AD until the present.

Mary is co-redemptrix. It is a simple title which acknowledges that we are all fellow laborers with God and she chief among us because she brought Christ into the world:
1 Corinthians 3:9
For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building.

Remember your loyalty must be first and foremost to holy scripture.

First and foremost to God and His Word which is taught us in Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture by the One, Holy, Apostolic and Catholic Church.

If you think God doesn’t allow his people to be tested by a corrupt religious leadership run by the devil, then you need to re-read the lessons taught in the Old Testament.

I believe it. It is you being tested by the corrupt leadership which you follow and which has mainlined the sins of adultery (Matthew 5:32), abortion (abortifacent contraception), homosexuality (permits homosexual ministers and has written homosexual versions of Scripture), etc. etc.


De Maria

Scripture alone, a tradition of men

A tradition of men, such as the one mentioned in Scripture, would be the doctrine of Scripture alone, which gives all individuals the right to interpret Scripture any way they want. Thus, invalidating the God given rule that one must obey those He has put in charge of our souls, in the Church.

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Scripture alone, a tradition of men

Scripture says:
Mark 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men,

A tradition of men, such as the one mentioned in Scripture, would be the doctrine of Scripture alone, which gives all individuals the right to interpret Scripture any way they want. Thus, invalidating the God given rule that one must obey those He has put in charge of our souls, in the Church.

Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Those who follow the erroneous doctrine of Scripture alone, replace God’s authority with their own and make Scripture say what they want it to say, rather than what God wills. Therefore, they claim that attending the Mass is unnecessary. Whereas, Scripture says that missing the Mass intentionally makes one God’s enemy:

Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

And that is just one of the traditions of men, or should I call them, errors of men, that Protestants follow and whereby they replace God’s Commandment with their tradition.

The Creeds are proofs against Sola Scriptura

The Creeds are concise expressions of all that Christians believe.  There are three Creeds which are called “ecumenical” because they express that which all Christians should believe and even the Reformed Christians accept these Creeds.

These three Creeds are the Apostles’ Creed, the Nicene Creed and the Athanasian Creed.  All three of these date to a time before the Bible was canonized.  Below, I’ve printed them out in their entirety, from a Protestant source.

The Apostles’ Creed

I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.

And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Ghost; the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. Amen.

The Nicene Creed

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father; by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again with glory to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; who spake by the Prophets. And I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

The Athanasian Creed

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

And the catholic faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost is all one: the glory equal, the majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three Eternals, but one Eternal. As there are not three Uncreated nor three Incomprehensibles, but one Uncreated and one Incomprehensible. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Ghost almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties, but one Almighty. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords, but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be God and Lord, So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say, There be three Gods, or three Lords.

The Father is made of none: neither created nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son: neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before or after other; none is greater or less than another; But the whole three Persons are coeternal together, and coequal: so that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshiped. He, therefore, that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe faithfully the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right faith is, that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God of the Substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and Man of the substance of His mother, born in the world; Perfect God and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood; Who, although He be God and Man, yet He is not two, but one Christ: One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking the manhood into God; One altogether; not by confusion of Substance, but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead; He ascended into heaven; He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty; from whence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies, and shall give an account of their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire.

This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.

Did you notice something glaringly absent?

These Creeds contain all the things which a Christian must believe.    The first two, the Apostles’ Creed and the Nicene, say, “I believe in the catholic Church”.  And the Athanasian says, “it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith”.   And then goes on to explain that which is the Catholic faith.

Not one of them says, “I believe that Scripture alone is the sole rule of faith”.

So, none of the Creeds say that we need to believe that Scripture alone is the sole rule of faith.  Add to that the fact that Scripture Itself says that the Church is the Pillar of Truth (1 Tim 3:15).  And that we should hold Tradition and Scripture (2 Thess 2:15).  And you’ve got a devastating argument against Sola Scriptura.

Where does Jesus teach Scripture alone?

The three major objections to Scripture Alone which Protestants can’t overcome

Scripture alone is the Protestant doctrine which says that Scripture is the sole rule of faith. It was originally known as Sola Scriptura. The word “sola” is the Latin word for “alone” and the word “scriptura” means “scripture”. In English it is called the doctrine of Scripture alone or sometimes, the Bible alone. 
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6 Quick Facts plus one about the authority of Christ and the Church

What Scripture does not say

There’s an interesting discussion going on in the comments to the Paradigm article. Thanks to all who are participating there. The idea that is surfacing is that Protestants make up doctrine according to what they claim, “Scripture does not say”.
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2 Tim 3:16 and Sola Scriptura

Before we look at 2 Tim 3:16, lets review a few verses throughout the entire letter of 2 Tim to see what St. Paul is really talking about:

Chapter 1: 7For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 8Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

It sounds to me as though St. Paul is exhorting St. Timothy to give oral testimony, i.e. to preach and teach the Gospel.  Not to pass out Bibles.

Chapter 2: 2And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

Again, that is an exhortation to pass down information by word.  And to make certain that those whom he, Timothy, teaches will be prepared to do the same.  That is the essence of oral Tradition.

Let’s skip over chapter 3 for now:

Chapter 4: 2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

Another exhortation to preach.

Do you really want me to believe, that throughout the epistle of 2 Timothy, St. Paul is telling Tim to preach and teach, but in Chapter 3 verse 15-16 he changes and tells him to pass out Bibles?  That seems far fetched to me.

But lets study the verse in its immediate context.  What is the immediate context of the verse?  It remains, oral teaching. Listen:

10But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

I have taught you and you have learned.

14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

So practice what you have learned considering from whom you have learned them.

15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Now, think about this carefully. Does a child have to know how to read in order to know the Scriptures? In my house, my children and I meditated on the Scriptures since before they knew how to read. So I know that the answer is, “No.”

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Remember what St. Peter said:

2 Pet 1:20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

And remember that the Bible says that the Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth.

1 Tim 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Now read 2 Tim 3:16 again:

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect throughly furnished unto all good works.

The Bible is useful, not necessary, for a Preacher to use “for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:” So that the Preacher may bring up the man of God and make him perfect for all good works.

This verse is speaking to instruction. This verse is describing the Magisterium, the Teaching Church.

It is very simple. The Bible does not contradict Itself. Sola Scriptura contradicts the Bible.