Tagged: salvation

Fielding more anti-Catholic objections

Anti-Catholic said:

Good thing I’m not in that religious cult where free thinking is prohibited. It’s based in Rome, heard of it?

Again, I thank you for providing this statement. It makes it very simple to compare your teachings to Scripture and Catholic Doctrine to Scripture.

So, is so called “free thinking” approved of in Scripture? Let us see what Scripture says:
Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Not in that verse. No.
Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Not in that verse, either.
1 Timothy 4:16
Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Nor in that verse.
Romans 6:17
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Matthew 18:17
King James Version (KJV)
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Not there either. Can you provide any verse which supports or promotes “free thinking”?

Please ignore everything I say –

I’m doing my best.

but you can’t ignore the Bible.

We know. We follow the Teaching of Scripture diligently. It is the Teaching of the Church. The Church wrote the New Testament and canonized the Old and then bound them together in one Holy Book.

Is that arrogance? You’d only think so if you mistook what I said for what the Bible said. If you make that mistake, shame on you, not me.

Its not we who mistake what you say for what the Bible actually says. It is you confounding the two.

The Bible says sorcery and enchantment really exist (eg, Ex 7:11, Acts 8:9, Isaiah 47:12, Prov 6:13) –

That is Catholic Teaching. That is why we have Exorcists.

whether Jack Van Impe (“imp” means a devil) uses it is pure speculation.

I have no idea who this guy is nor what you guys are talking about. Carry on. No comment on my part.

Also, the Bible has a rapture (Rev 14:14-16; Matthew 25:1) and a rapture (2 Thess 2:6-7; 1 Cor 15:52)- if you can reconcile them some other way than one post-trib and other pre-trib, then go ahead.

Only the Father knows. I’ll leave it to Him to reveal it in His good time.

And if you can explain the mystery of James the son of Alphaeus who is Christ’s brother – without changing the text – then go ahead.

Easily. The word “adelphos” is used to mean “close or intimate friend” as in the following:

Mat 23:8 But 1161 be 2564 0 not 3361 ye 5210 called 2564 Rabbi 4461: for 1063 one 1520 is 2076 your 5216 Master 2519, [even] Christ 5547; and 1161 all 3956 ye 5210 are 2075 brethren 80.

All of the Apostles are brethren according to Christ.

Strong’s G80 – adelphos
ἀδελφός
Transliteration
adelphos

The word used there is adelphos.

Jhn 20:17 Jesus 2424 saith 3004 unto her 846, Touch 680 me 3450 not 3361; for 1063 I am 305 0 not yet 3768 ascended 305 to 4314 my 3450 Father 3962: but 1161 go 4198 to 4314 my 3450 brethren 80, and 2532 say 2036 unto them 846, I ascend 305 unto 4314 my 3450 Father 3962, and 2532 your 5216 Father 3962; and 2532 [to] my 3450 God 2316, and 2532 your 5216 God 2316.

This disproves the Protestant teaching that adelphos must always be a “brother of the womb”.

Ignore me every time –

Still doing my best.

but the Bible says what it says.

Yeah. And the Bible continually supports Catholic doctrine because it is based upon Catholic Teaching.

Why do you concern yourself so much with Mary while avoiding a Bible-based study of her?

Hm? It is you who concern yourself with denying the Bible based doctrines concerning the Mother of Our Lord.

Isn’t that rather ridiculous?

Your position is, yes.

We can thank Reformers for any Bible doctrine that stamps out men’s traditions –

No. It is precisely the opposite. The Reformers confounded the teaching of Scripture and have led many people astray, including you.

including the reformers’ traditions.

Any of their traditions which contradict the Teaching of the Catholic Church also contradict Scripture.

Traditions are fine unless the Bible says otherwise.

Exactly! Let me give you a clear example. Protestants say “justified by faith alone.” Scripture says:

James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Why should snake handling cults shock people more than Roman Catholics whipping themselves or crucifying themselves??

Why should Catholics whipping themselves or crucifying themselves shock people more than snake handling Christians?

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

1 Corinthians 9:27
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

1 Pet 4:1
Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

Let the Pope sit in this special little seat and acknowledge the supremacy of the King James Bible over everything – then we will have something worthwhile to unify around.

The King James Bible is a translation based in part upon St. Jerome’s Latin Vulgate. It is St. Jerome’s Latin Vulgate which is the best translation of the originals that ever existed.

That sordid bigot Leo X attacked Martin Luther and cut his church off from the work of God – which continued elsewhere.

It is the other way around. Martin Luther cut himself off from the work of God when he revolted against the Church.

Romanism went on to enacted the ludicrous “anathemas” in the Council of Trent – cutting itself off completely from Bible Christianity.

Still more error on your part. The Catholic Church did precisely what She was supposed to do when She condemned the heinous errors of the Protestants.

Luther wrote to the German princes that in view of Rome’s manifest failure to lead the flock of God, it was necessary that fellow Christians – who are all priests – appoint their own bishops. He was exactly right – 2 Tim 2:2.

He was wrong. He innovated and changed the Word of God. Thereby disobeying the verse you have provided in support of his heinous behavior:
2 Timothy 2:
2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

This is the support for Apostolic Succession. He flagrantly also violated this Scripture:
Hebrews 13:17
17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Of course, “pillar and ground of the truth” (1 Tim 3:15) isn’t a sarcastic title when applied to saved believers under Christ’s head – but it is when applied to Romanism under the pope’s head.

On the contrary, it is a perfect description of the Catholic Church. The term “saved believers” when applied to Protestants is irony in its purest form. It is they who deny the Fountains of God’s grace which are the Sacraments. The only vessels by which they can be saved in this life.

In that very chapter, 1 Timothy 3, Paul says Bishops should be married.

And in another verse he says that in order to better serve the Lord a man should remain unmarried:
1 Corinthians 7:32
But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:

Which verse carries the greater force in your opinion?

So please forgive me if I involuntarily snicker when somebody calls Rome the “pillar and ground of the truth.”

It is God whose forgiveness you should seek for belittling the Church which His Son sacrificed Himself to build:
Ephesians 5:
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

You aren’t aware of the “co-redemptrix” lobby? Once they get their way you will then have ample opportunity to “explain” how this didn’t deify Mary, like you explain so many other “consistencies” from 313 AD until the present.

Mary is co-redemptrix. It is a simple title which acknowledges that we are all fellow laborers with God and she chief among us because she brought Christ into the world:
1 Corinthians 3:9
For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building.

Remember your loyalty must be first and foremost to holy scripture.

First and foremost to God and His Word which is taught us in Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture by the One, Holy, Apostolic and Catholic Church.

If you think God doesn’t allow his people to be tested by a corrupt religious leadership run by the devil, then you need to re-read the lessons taught in the Old Testament.

I believe it. It is you being tested by the corrupt leadership which you follow and which has mainlined the sins of adultery (Matthew 5:32), abortion (abortifacent contraception), homosexuality (permits homosexual ministers and has written homosexual versions of Scripture), etc. etc.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

There is a misunderstanding of the Two Covenants, but it is in the sense that one is works based and the other is not.

On the contrary, they are both faith based, as Scripture attests. Read Heb 11 and see annotated therein, the list of the Old Testament faithful, who obeyed and did the works of God, by their faith. They are put there as an example for us.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, …
11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Those who have enough faith, will do the works which God wills for them to do. Old Covenant or New.

James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

So, what is the difference between the Old and New Covenants? It’s illustrated in this parable:

Matthew 20:1 For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.
2 And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.
3 And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
4 And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.
5 Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.
6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?
7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.
8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.
9 And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,
12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

The first set of laborers, are those who do not accept the Sacraments. They will work their entire life, but will not be judged until they come to the Judgment Seat of Christ. At that time, those who claim salvation by faith alone, will be Judged by Christ. Whether they are truly saved, they will learn at that time.

The second set of laborers, are those who accept the Sacraments. Those who take them seriously, repent of their sins and do their best to obey God before and after receiving the Sacraments. They receive the Sacraments and are credited with righteousness for believing that God will keep His promises and for hoping in God for their salvation. Judgment comes to them in this life, everytime they approach the Altar:

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

God only saves those who do His righteous works, whether it be through the Sacraments or at the Judgment Seat. Both Covenants are based on faith. And in both Covenants, faith without works, is dead.

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Faith alone is faith in oneself

Faith in works to obtain salvation is not faith in Christ.

Faith in works? Really?

Let’s see if that is true. When has any Catholic proclaimed themselves saved by works? Name one. Some of you were once Catholic, so I suppose that your parents were or maybe, are still, Catholic. Ask them if they have declared themselves saved because of their works.

Ok. If you are honest, you will admit that we deny that we are saved in this lifetime. Again, if you are honest, you will remember that when you were Catholic, you were told that we do not know if we are saved, but we await God’s judgment of our deeds.

True or not?

If a Catholic were to declare himself saved because he did so many good works, then that Catholic doesn’t know his Catholic faith.

Ok. Now, let’s look at those who claim to be saved by faith alone. There’s many of you. You roam the streets asking people if they are saved and when they say that they don’t know, you pounce and say, “I am saved by my faith alone!”

But that isn’t faith in Christ. That’s you declaring your faith in yourself. Here’s the proof.

You say that one is saved unto good works. Because, you say that faith which does not provide good works is not a saving faith. Ok. If your faith is a saving faith, what works do you have to your credit to prove that your faith is a saving faith? How many works must you do in order to prove that your faith is a saving faith? If you can’t provide any proof, why do you declare yourself saved?

I’ll tell you why. Because of your exceedingly great faith, in yourself.

Faith alone people suffer with two false assumptions.