They never did answer the question

ERIC May 17, 2015 at 7:52 pm
Mateo–
We don’t cherish the “ability to sin” but the assurance that we will be forgiven. 

If you repent. Repentance is key.

But then, you already knew that.

No, I don’t. Now, you are saying you don’t cherish the ability to sin. But you know you will be forgiven IF you sin. That is totally different. And that is Catholic Doctrine. We also believe that God will forgive us, when we repent of our sins.

So Bird and Magic gave themselves athletic talent

Yes. They are both known as hard workers who would practice longer hours than their contemporaries.

and grew themselves to be 6 feet 9 inches tall?

Are you insinuating that any man who is 6 foot 9 inches tall would be considered an all star in the NBA and NCAA?

What we have here is an example of synergism. Even if God had given them all the ability in the world, they would still have to put that into practice and show up for the games and do the things they needed to do to win. They did what they had to do to win their perishable crowns.

Merit. All merit, you say.

That is correct. They merited their position in the NCAA and NBA. There were plenty of other people 6 feet 9 inches tall who were not even considered for these positions.

(For the sake of the analogy, let’s just call them “freaks of nature” who never had to practice or train a single day of their lives. Happy now? No merit involved.)

Did they have to show up for the games? Did they have to run and play and master their positions? Yeah. There’s merit involved.

De Maria–

You wrote:

“Did they have to show up for the games? Did they have to run and play and master their positions? Yeah. There’s merit involved.”

Someone held a gun to their heads and forced them to show up. They learned their positions by osmosis. There was absolutely no merit involved.

ERIC May 18, 2015 at 3:51 pm
De Maria–
You wrote:
“Did they have to show up for the games? Did they have to run and play and master their positions? Yeah. There’s merit involved.”
Someone held a gun to their heads and forced them to show up. They learned their positions by osmosis. There was absolutely no merit involved.

Lol! You absolutely don’t get it. Even if they were forced to show up. Even if they learned their positions by osmosis. They still had to perform.

Your example absolutely demolishes monergism and faith alone.

De Maria,

So, if someone holds a gun to your head and you rake my yard as a result, I will owe you all sorts of kudos for the good turn you did me. Is that what you”re telling me?

I”ll call the police to get that miserable gunman arrested, but you’ll be waiting a long time to receive thanks for all your hard work.

De Maria,

I”ve heard it said (in some location, at some point in time, by somebody or other) that the human psyche cannot hold to a contradiction without surrendering its rationality.

If a gift is of grace, merit is ruled out.
If a reward is merited, grace is ruled out.

One cannot earn that which is freely given.
One cannot receive free of charge that which one has earned.

ERIC May 18, 2015 at 8:10 pm
De Maria,
So, if someone holds a gun to your head and you rake my yard as a result, I will owe you all sorts of kudos for the good turn you did me. Is that what you”re telling me?

Eric, is God holding a gun to your head in order for you to do good? Because that is the comparison you’re making.

You’re saying that God is holding a gun to your head in order for you to do good and therefore, you don’t deserve any merit for any good which you do.

Whereas, we believe that we do good because we love God and God sees the good which we do and credits it to us as righteousness and rewards us with the grace of the Holy Spirit.

I”ll call the police to get that miserable gunman arrested, but you’ll be waiting a long time to receive thanks for all your hard work.

Well, its your metaphor, I guess you can do whatever you want. But your metaphor is nowhere near the truth of Scripture. It is totally against the Teaching of the Word of God.

ERIC May 18, 2015 at 8:28 pm
De Maria,
I”ve heard it said (in some location, at some point in time, by somebody or other) that the human psyche cannot hold to a contradiction without surrendering its rationality.

We are saved by faith alone but not by a faith which is alone.

If a gift is of grace, merit is ruled out.

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

If a reward is merited, grace is ruled out.

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

One cannot earn that which is freely given.

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

One cannot receive free of charge that which one has earned.

There’s a difference between earning and meriting. Those who merit something in the eyes of God, are deemed “worthy” of receiving His Gift.

Luke 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: 35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

Matthew 10:37
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Matthew 22:8
Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

Ephesians 4:1I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, 2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; 3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Those who earn it, merely work to repay a debt.

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Fred is avoiding the question and so are the rest of the Protestants.

What does it mean where Scripture says we need to be “worthy of” Him?

Matthew 10:37
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

If we don’t merit salvation, why does Scripture say we must be worthy?

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